Incredible art by Sarah Ellerton on this page. Love it. Vote for Dreamless to read the English translation of what little Elanor said.
Am
· 10 months ago
Oh man, I've been reading about early pentacostals too much. This makes me think she has xenolalia. Hahahah.
Siobhan
· 10 months ago
Gosh.... Japanese isn't that *interesting*
exsling
· 10 months ago
No, it means "happy birthday" in a polite form. "Interesting" is "omoshiroi".
Mitsukaiten
· 10 months ago
I think if my child randomly woke up speaking Japanese, I'd be a little freaked. Unless I'd been teaching him/her.... but I get the feeling these parents aren't the Japanese-speaking type.
Antoine
· 10 months ago
I think she's saying happy birthday. Not sure tho.
delphine
· 10 months ago
She is indeed. She's also using the formal form of speech, which is interesting but possibly not relevant :)
delphine
· 10 months ago
...and that was in response to Antoine's "I think she's saying happy birthday" (she is) - though she's very pretty as a baby too! Gorgeous art on this page.
Misuzu
· 10 months ago
yup
crystal
· 10 months ago
shes so pritty as a baby
Tom
· 10 months ago
This art is amazing. Just when I thought Sarah's art couldn't get any better..
Jon
· 10 months ago
Well Bobby, how does it feel to work with an artist who knows how to draw noses?
Frank Balem
· 10 months ago
Are you serious? I clicked on an ad for this and there are five pages. Keep your money until you have a story developed, because otherwise you are wasting peoples times and annoying them.
EtchedInLove
· 10 months ago
Five pages of awesome art and intriguing story. Just hold onto your panties and wait. Come back in a few months or a year, as stated, and you'll have plenty to read.
Kai
· 10 months ago
Dude chill, every comic starts somewhere. And this JUST STARTED.
Cheryl
· 10 months ago
Don't presume to speak for other people, Frank, because I do not feel my time is being wasted and I'm not annoyed by there only being five pages. The artist and writer do have other things to do than this comic, and they have a story developed--which they're telling to us, one page at a time.
Sarah and Bobby, keep up the excellent work.
Midevilynsanity
· 10 months ago
Frank, this is a free comic hosting site, including the ads. If you're upset about there being only 5 pages, wait a year and then come back, otherwise the comic is updated every Monday. :) Happy Reading. --
Bobby - so far this story is pretty good! Can't wait to see what's going to happen!! :D
Sarah (if you read the comments) -- Oh my god, the art on this page is gorgeous!! Baby Elanor is absolutely beautiful, as is the coloring and shading. Great work.
It's awesome that you and Bobby got in touch and joined forces-- You make a great team!!!
Neph
· 10 months ago
Love this page. Elanor looks so adorable, with that healthy toddler plumpness to her.
....Wow, I sound like I want to roast her or something. O__o;;
Aaanyway, I also think that the American flag in the background is a nice touch. ^__^ Although I'm getting confused as to the time-period, now. Is that intentional? O__O
And goodness. The situation with the dude on the cover isn't just a recent thing, now, is it. How tantalizing!
Loreley
· 10 months ago
Neph - Bobby and Sarah have stated that Dreamless takes place in the 1940s; I'd say Elanor would be around twenty, maybe a little older, and this is a flashback. It's the 1920s. You can tell by the flapper style clothing Elanor's mother is wearing.
Beautiful work, as per usual, the two of you!
Neph
· 10 months ago
Thank you very much for the info, it helps clarify a lot. :)
storn
· 10 months ago
Intriguing story. Beautiful artwork. How can you put so much craft into the art every week. It boggles my mind.
Kira
· 10 months ago
Hmm. Not standard Hepburnised romanisation I see. Why not hiragana/kanji?
Kurausuki
· 10 months ago
It might be for the sake of the artist. I know Photoshop is a pain to get Japanese text on my computer. Also because there are a lot of people who would understand this romanisation while at the same time not being able to read hiragana or Kanji, possibly.
On another note, I prefer this romanisation over more standard, because it's easier for me to read and understand. ^^;; (And type when I need to.)
Anon
· 10 months ago
Can someone translate what she's saying, please? Or, since Bobby wrote it, he could just say. I'd really like to know.
kyoutenka
· 10 months ago
The Japanese literally says "Happy Birthday" in formal (i.e. polite) Japanese.
Wendy
· 10 months ago
Gorgeous page. Love teh textures. Are we supposed to notice that she's repeating back "Happy Birthday" as opposed to saying "it's my birthday"? Something significant about that?
Intergal
· 10 months ago
I think it's more the fact that she can understand what her mother is saying, and repeat it back to her, albeit in another language.
starfeuri
· 10 months ago
Congratulations on your birthday!
Maedyn
· 10 months ago
It doesn't nessicarily have to be "O" tanjoubi. I just figure a child wouldn't be speaking in honorifics. :O But then again, I have never been to Japan myself.
Maedyn
· 10 months ago
BTW -
Otanjoubi: Birthday Omedetou: Celebrate (I believe) Gozaimasu: Please
Close to how they say Happy New Years - "Akemashite omedetou gozaimasu".
Cassie
· 10 months ago
Omedetou is closer to "congratulations", and Gozaimasu is actually sort of a formal way to say "is", although it gets used as "please" a lot, because it makes things polite.
Kc
· 10 months ago
My friend's little sister used to speak German in her sleep and they were Indian. Eventually it stopped as she got around 5. They think she must've had a past life as a German or something...dunno I thought it was cool. lol
Dani
· 10 months ago
How did your friend's family know it was German? Did it just sound like German or did they ask someone who could speak German or what?
Dani
· 10 months ago
Bother. This was supposed to go right under the comment about the little girl who spoke German in her sleep. I don't know why it didn't put it there.
Tealia
· 10 months ago
Hmm.. Military Dad and Flapper Mom..
Nice. xD
Meiyo
· 10 months ago
Yay, Japanese! :D
Looks stunning :)
Kati
· 10 months ago
I'm pretty sure that they're probably in Japan...or they have been there since the husband is talking about moon pies. And he's dressed militaryish.
Loreley
· 10 months ago
I doubt they're in Japan. I don't think military bases were established there until after World War II.
Loreley
· 10 months ago
Kati: And moon pies are actually a Southern thing:
yay! I know that phrase! without looking it up too :P That makes me happy. odd she's speaking japanese though. mysterious
Cyrik
· 10 months ago
I'm sure your child spontaneously speaking Jap would be great at any other point in history, but somehow I believe that at this current moment, it's really bad timing.
Gunnr
· 10 months ago
The artwork is just blowing me away. Now, if the story turns out to be as good as the art work, you're going to have yourselves a real winner here!
I have your RSS feed in Feadreader 3.13 so I'll be sure not to miss an update -- RSS feed much appreciated, BTW! -- but for some reason, I get 3 update notices, all for the same page!
Chris Crosby
· 10 months ago
"RSS feed much appreciated, BTW! -- but for some reason, I get 3 update notices, all for the same page!"
That glitch will be corrected once there are seven pages in the archive.
dragonmage06
· 10 months ago
Such a beautiful little girl (and such beautiful artwork!!). I agree with Cyrik, this might be bad timing to be coming out with Japanese in particular. Especially since her dad looks like he's military.
Chelby
· 10 months ago
japanese? wouldn't that be great if your childs first words were in another language=/ i dont think thats going to make the mom feel much better.
im curious as to what will happen next!
Brent
· 10 months ago
Grr....flashback on a cliffhanger....Bobby, you gotta stop writing like one of ther LOST writers. I mean, I love the show and all, but still.... :-P
Well for her sake, I hope the parents just assume she's speaking gibberish, though that probably won't be the case.
Still loving the art, Sarah! I SWEAR I will start reading TPR one of these days!
anAutumnRose
· 10 months ago
I found this comic last week, and I was so excited! I just recently started reading Sarah Ellerton's and Bobby Crosby's stuff separately, and found this after reading all of some of their previous stuff, and I'm so glad. . . Now I've got super fabulous artwork to look forward to seeing on Mondays, along with a storyline that is already making me want to just sit at the computer and read more. . .
Awesome beginning! I look forward to seeing this story pan out!
Jackie
· 10 months ago
oh wow.......its a definate that she speaks. only what does she speak???
charles81
· 10 months ago
Now there's an interesting one if Sarah has to draw her through multiple stages of her life in growing up. I know she did it in Inverloch but there was only child and adult there. This might see a few more stages. Looking forward to it.
Other than that, I'm guessing they avoided using Japanese font so they could show how the parents are confused by the sounds and can't make them out as Japansese or any language. Just jibberish.
Suki
· 10 months ago
... ROFL wow... i would totally ok with her saying that if she was asian.. now... ok.. rofl i must know more now xD
Amarena
· 10 months ago
Hmm, my guess is that the parents won't even realize she's speaking in another language. Who knows, maybe this little girl talks in japanese all the time but, as no one can understand her, they all think she hasn't started talking yet. It's not normal for western people to recognize an asian language, even nowadays, and if it's around 1920 in this page, the chances are even smaller. On a second note, I think she looks a bit older than two years, but that could be just my bad memory - kell knows it's hard to draw children.
Melinda
· 10 months ago
I agree she looks older than two... but so do a lot of two year olds. I guess that is the problem with drawing kids is that you really have very little to go by for a standard. After about 1 year kids grow and develop at different rates. I used to work at a daycare and while a lot of the kids stayed about the same with how they looked and acted there were always one or two that looked 3 or 4 even though they were not quite 2 fully yet. It just depends on the kid.
Sid
· 10 months ago
Oh god. The art is great, and this is really getting interesting. I wasn't expecting this...
SuchStrings
· 10 months ago
Wow, the fact that I understood the Japanese made my day, even without the fantastic art and intriquing story. High school Japanese class was good for something!
Its wonderful to see this different art style Sarah, I can't wait until you have a whole book shelf running across your Seraph-Inn site.
Elle
· 10 months ago
Hah! Everyone's voting for Dreamless to see what she's saying! Nice trick Bobby!
LupusDraconis
· 10 months ago
Heehee, yay language classes. I need no translation.
Kalietha
· 10 months ago
Parents speak english, kid speaks japanese? Very interesting. Or considering the beginning of the comic, perhaps this is supposed to be 'speaking in tongues', which supposedly always turns out to be a real language somewhere that the person in question has never been exposed to.
Kat
· 10 months ago
An interesting fact about "gozaimasu" as well is that it is the very old form of "desu" used by the samurai. Now it is only kept for the most formal sayings such as saying "thank you very much" arigatou gozaimasu, or in this case congratulating someone for something with the phrase omedetou gozaimasu. Omedetou by itself would have sufficed, but due to the time period of the comic it makes more sense that she would say gozaimasu. Now the first O in otanjoubi makes it seem like she's saying it to someone else (well the congratulations part wouldn't be said for herself either), as in she is not saying it's her birthday, because the "o" is another kind of honorific used to express manners when talking to others. She is of course two so obviously she may just be mimicking what she's heard before. [If anyone was wondering, to say "It is my birthday" the simplest way to say it (politely) is "tanjoubi desu" (Birthday is/am/are). If you want to get fancy and long you can say "Kyou wa watashi no tanjoubi desu" (Today my birthday is/am/are). Difference of "It's (my) birthday" to "Today it is my birthday." (Like saying "It's my birthday today.") Also you can ask someone else if it's their birthday by saying otanjoubi desu ka? (Sticking the polite o- back on and adding ka which denotes that it's a question. So yeah it's just the question mark.)]
Going by the cover of this comic I'm assuming that when she sleeps she goes somewhere and is with that Japanese man (I guess maybe a boy at this time) on the cover and that would be where she learns Japanese from.
And I guess the difference between using romanji and the actual hiri/kana kanji characters doesn't really matter when the parents are hearing gibberish anyways. Then again maybe they do know what their little girl said... maybe lol.
Cooper Reid
· 10 months ago
OMG!!! she just said Islam is the light! you all heard it...
I have never comented before, but I'm a huge fan of Bobby and Sarah. I was thrilled to hear that they were collaborating. This has definetly risen to the top of my list of comics to watch. It's so exciting!
Silk
· 10 months ago
uhm, why is she speaking japanese?
TK
· 10 months ago
I love the parallel of baby Elanor in the 1st panel to the shot we saw of Elanor on the first page. Nice touch!!
I also like that she's not a direct clone of either of her parents, but the resemblance is defnitely still there. Particularly in her facial expressions and her mom's in panel 5.
This is just wonderful! I can't imagine the work that goes into this.
spas
· 10 months ago
i don't need a story to be linear, that's more predictable and less lyrical. better page flow today - agree with the art comments - i don't like the collar of elanor's dress, but the art is insanely good.
Austin
· 10 months ago
if you know Japanese then its like she is frosty the snow man
AWickedMemory
· 10 months ago
Japanese? O_o
She's a really cute two year old, but she looks a little big for that age. O_o Her mom is pretty~
genesee paws
· 10 months ago
Exquisite art work, the story line grabs you at the onset. The use of the gun is perfect to grab attention and draw you into the high emotion of the scene.
Rei
· 10 months ago
This is craaaaazy. It flows well, but leaves so many questions. I can tell I'm going to love this comic already. It really keeps you on the edge of your seat thinking, "Whaaaat??".
I've been an avid fan of Sarah's since Inverloch. I'm excited to see her join a project with such a good writer. The art is fantastic! I can't wait to get more of the story.
Also.. crazy Japanese?? I don't even know what to expect now, haha!
Axel
· 10 months ago
First of all, of course, the art is beautiful and the writing is interesting and has me hooked already. But please, Bobby, please make a top page, or any page with a static URL that shows the current comic without having to click-through. I have a lot of comics in my list, and and often go through them quickly to see which have updated - if I see something new, I stop to read it. With Marry Me and Last Blood, I just need to bookmark /main/, but there's no dreamless.keenspot.com/main so I have click-through the main page to see there's a new comic up. I know it updates Mondays, and it's a small inconvenience, but I know I'm not the only one who reads comics this way, and with Well over a hundred that I check regularly, I wouldn't want this gem to get lost in shuffle.
So please, make a URL that will update visually when there's a new page, not just in the URL of one link. I'm not sure why you didn't already. The only time I've seen this kind of layout where the latest comic is not on the top page (at least, where I saw the layout and thought it was justified) was when a multiple-page update was the norm - which is not the case here, since there's a 1-page-per-week schedule. Even then, there was a thumbnail or (as with Sarah's site) a blog to announce a new update.
- Axel
Bobby Crosby
· 10 months ago
No, we'll never do that and I see no reason to in any way. It really boggles my mind actually. The "art is beautiful and the writing is interesting and has me hooked already" but this will get "lost in shuffle" if there isn't a "static URL that shows the current comic without having to click-through." I know very little about all this web site stuff, but you seem to know a lot, so I don't understand why you don't simply use the RSS feed, or, you know, just read it whenever you might remember the comic. If your memory is so insanely bad that you might forget it for FOREVER, even though you think it's beautiful and interesting and has you hooked, especially when you read tons of comics and will have ample opportunity to be reminded of it in some fashion at some point (ads/links on other sites, other comic fans talking about it, etc.), then I assume you've already forgotten most of this comment of mine that you're reading right now.
And wait a minute here -- I don't even understand ANY of this, any of what you're saying. How will a "main" page help at all? You're saying that you WILL remember to often visit such a main page, which means you'd also remember to visit dreamlessmovie.com, but the problem is you then don't want to click on CURRENT PAGE under the cover on dreamlessmovie.com, because you literally don't want to waste ONE SECOND to see if there's a new one, even though there will almost certainly be one every Monday for the next 18 months or so? I'm so extremely confused. You don't even have to click! All you have to do is put your cursor over CURRENT PAGE and you'll see if it's a new date or not! Then only click if it's a new date and you'll see the new comic! Or use the RSS feed! Or a trillion other obvious options. So so so confused.
"So please, make a URL that will update visually when there's a new page, not just in the URL of one link. I'm not sure why you didn't already."
#1: Because my brother handles the web site stuff and we're using a different system for this comic that doesn't include such a thing and I wouldn't even bother asking him about this pointless nonsense. #2: It's pointless nonsense.
Also, you even say that you read Sarah's comics, which is of course a super obvious place that you'll be reminded of "Dreamless" pretty often, I'm sure. I don't in any way understand your stated fear of having this gem get lost in the shuffle. I see less than a zero percent chance of that for you. This is basically the most pointless complaint I've ever heard of.
Glad you like the comic.
Mia
· 10 months ago
You know when you respond to someone saying something just simple like this in a fairly polite way and just completely bash them as stupid, you come off like a prick.
And I'm sure you'll take what I'm saying as some great insult against your fantastic ego that can never be tarnished and bash it, while other people insult me as well.
But you know what? It's not hard to just be nice to the people that actually enjoy your comic instead of completely putting them off by your attitude of "oh god you ASKED ME TO DO SOMETHING? BUT THIS IS ALL ABOUT ME!"
Which sucks, because I really like your stuff, you have a talent. But I always get sidetracked by your attitude whenever I read the comics and you sound all defensive.
Bobby Crosby
· 10 months ago
What Axel said made no sense to me and he implied that I was an idiot for not having already done what he wanted ("I'm not sure why you didn't already"). It was even more stupid than the people who complained about "Dreamless" being in the newsbox when Page 1 went up, or the person who complained about clicking an ad recently to come here and only find five pages.
I also don't see how I was so mean to him (in my previous comment). He asked me to do something, I said no, and then I nicely chose to explain why I said no, while I was still trying to figure out why he wanted what he asked for. And it's impossible for that explanation to not sound at least a little mean, since he was saying an insanely stupid thing, but still, at least I gave him an explanation, jeez. It would have been more mean if I simply said no. I personally hate wondering about such things, being confused, but I have no problem with people calling me every name in the book like you did. I assume I have more experience with that than Axel, but still, confusion is the worst, and I didn't call him any names. You started the name calling.
Why do you make it sound like it's somehow news to tell me that I'm a prick? Your last sentence strongly implied that you've read lots of the comments for my various comics, where you could have seen literally hundreds of people saying the exact same thing you just said. You're the one with the ego obviously, thinking it will somehow matter more when you say it. You could have waited and picked a much better time to do so, though, since I'm 99% sure I'll be much more mean to someone else at some point soon in these comments.
"It's not hard to just be nice to the people that actually enjoy your comic . . ."
He said he needed like 8,000 different special reminders that the comic exists in order for it not to get lost in the shuffle. It would be similar to sending J.K. Rowling a letter a few years ago asking her to call him when Book 7 was released, to make sure he doesn't forget to go buy it. Except what he did here was much more confusing. Rowling's much nicer than me, though, so she probably would have actually called him. I love her.
To be clear, I have no clue how to do what he asks and I doubt my brother would even consider wasting the time to do it. If Axel asked me to call him when a new page went up, I probably would, since I strive to be like J.K. Rowling.
davethebrave
· 10 months ago
Calm it down. The best answer to anything anyone says on the internet, ever, is lol.
Just lol at them. Ironically or actually, lol.
Midevilynsanity
· 10 months ago
@ Dave the Brave
LOL
You're so right.
@ Bobby
Rowling is Amazing. -- You're a pretty awesome writer yourself!!
@ Mia and Axel, I take it you haven't read "Marry Me" (or at least the comments there) seeing as to how you're picking the same spat with Bobby as most of the "Marry Me" Readers did. Here's a tip I've learned: Let him do things his way or you get insta-banned.
Axel
· 10 months ago
I'm sorry that what was meant to be a small request turned into such an affair, but now I feel like I have to defend myself (which still seems rather silly, looking back at my original comment). So, anyone that's just looking for commentary on the comic feel free to skip this post (if it wasn't obvious), but I hope Bobby and anyone else that felt I was unreasonable reads this. As a secondary purpose, I do feel that the response I got was more sarcastic and rude than it needed to be, and while I'm not particularly wounded by that sort of thing I find it shocking that Bobby says he doesn't even recognize it as such.
I make it a point to explain myself, and why I would like that feature. In fact, I'm pretty paranoid, just by my nature, about sounding entitled, demanding, or rude when all I have to communicate with is text. I said that I understand it's a minor convenience on my part, and when I say "I don't understand" I actually mean "I don't understand" - that was not an insult, I obviously don't know every in and out of your site design, it's your comic and your site. I didn't know if you (or, apparently your brother) had simply not thought of it, or if you had a specific reason to set the site up that way. That simple sentence was an invitation, if you did have a specific reason, to explain it. If you had simply said "Well, Axel, I did have a reason not to do it that way, because ______, so I won't change it" then I would have been perfectly satisfied and no-one would have complained. In fact, if you had simply said "I did have a reason" but not provided said reason, I would have been satisfied that you were aware such a page was wanted and had decided yourself that it was not needed (it is your site!).
I never assumed anything about your motivations, except that I didn't know them. I thought that letting you know why I was making that suggestion would be better than simply saying it without context, and emphasizing that it would be of a minor convenience would convey that I did not intend it to be a demand and did not hold a 100% expectation that it would be followed. In fact, I thought the reason this site deviated from the standard of your other collaborative comics might be that it was a preference of Sarah's, so out of curiosity I went to her site to see how it was layed out (this why I referenced it as an alternative example - I have not, in fact, read any of her comics outside of Dreamless)
When I said "lost in the shuffle" I only meant that I would not see updates as they go up. Is that so wrong? Yes, I might realize in a few months that I'm 10 pages behind, and catch up. Will this be the end of the world? Of course not. I never said it was. If you must know why I might not think to check every Monday, it gets a little personal but I have inattentive ADD - which is only relevant in this case in that I lose track of what I'm doing easily if it's not right in front of me. When I read comics, I have a large list of bookmarks, and I go down the list quickly, seeing if each page has something new. I didn't think that going into this much excruciating detail as to the motivations and actions of my daily routine were necessary, but since you felt the need to analyze my every action in lieu of further explanation, I guess I was expected to provide it myself. Perhaps I should have left that part out and simply said it would be more convenient for me? I just looked at my comment and thought that it didn't seem like I had justified myself very well, so I added another reason why it would be helpful on an update-to-update basis (and wanted to reiterate that, while I'm making a request, the reason is that I like the comic in the first place), but it seems you focused on that sentence as some specific fear. As a side note, I did read your post several times to understand it. This is because, knowing that I lose my train of thought easily, I make special effort to understand what others are saying and why as well as to make myself understood.
And again, just because this is the most important point, and something you appear to have missed - did I expect a writer of several webcomics, manager of a number of intellectual properties across the internet, printed page, and films, to take time out of his busy schedule to comply with the demands of a college student with a short attention span? Of course I didn't! (please note that I'm not being sarcastic here - I know that Bobby Crosby is juggling several projects on and offline, and surely more than the ones he announces on his comic sites, and probably has a busier day-to-day schedule than I have at my worst)
I expected one of three outcomes: a) If you read my comment, were sympathetic, and had some free time (or thought your webmaster might), you would add a /main page (or ask your webmaster if he could, at which point he could say yes or no), or leave a note saying you would look into it when you had the time. b) if you read my comment but had a specific reason not to have said page in the first place, or felt that the effort would outweigh the minor benefit (or, as in scenario a, your webmaster told you it wouldn't be worth it), you would leave a note saying "No, I intended the site to have this layout to begin with" or "Sorry, it's more trouble than you'd think." Or c) you don't read the comment, or you don't find it important enough to respond to, and when I check the site again (I do keep track of online conversations more closely than my list of comics) there is no reply, so I move on with my life and don't worry about it, no longer wondering if it was just an oversight every time the thought "oh, that's right, I have to stop and check the url/click again for this site" flits passes through my head for half a second.
Of course, what we see is that... b), a perfectly acceptable result has occurred! My initial request has been resolved in a satisfactory and expected manner. I appreciate that you felt adding another page was not worth your brother's time. I will admit that it seems a bit insulting that you deemed it so unimportant that you did not even mention it to your brother, leaving the gain, no matter how minuscule, compared to an unknown value instead of a known cost - if only because you decided it was important enough to warrant such a lengthy reply to me. However, the simple result that you did not create a /main page or make updates on the index page visually apparent, is perfectly acceptable by my standards and not in itself insulting or surprising.
The issue I have, of course, is the way you seem to have read malice, entitlement, and stupidity into my language. I give you the benefit of the doubt, as I hope I do with everyone, that you are a reasonable person, and your motivations are valid (I still do, of course - otherwise I wouldn't be bothering with this reply). But you don't give me that same benefit. You don't seem to realize where you are being "mean" or insulting, or indeed where you say anything that is unwarranted.
My main point of contention is that instead of simply refusing my request, or explaining why it's more reasonable for the site to operate the way it does, you go out of your way to make me and my request sound unreasonable and ridiculous - that is, you did not do so "nicely" and brought insults against me where you would have been perfectly justified without them (unnecessarily "mean"). If you were trying to make your argument nicely, you would have refrained from insults and purely negative arguments (that my suggestion is bad) and focused on purely or mostly positive arguments (that not following my suggestion is good). Furthermore, a lot of your rhetoric isn't even arguing that I am unreasonable, but simply asserting or implying it repeatedly.
Saying something like "It really boggles my mind actually" doesn't further the argument the site should remain as it is, it only demeans my request by implying it is not only unreasonable, but unintelligible. Whether or not that's true, it's certainly an insult, and one that is there for its own sake, not necessary for any positive argument toward your decision. There is a lot of language like this in your response. "I don't even understand ANY of this," emphasizing that no part of my comment is intelligent; in fact the whole paragraph following makes the assumption that I am completely unaware of any alternative (as opposed to, as I said, it being "a minor inconvenience") and ends with "Or a trillion other obvious options" - this time implying I'm ignorant and oblivious, if not just stupid.
I would also like to say that you take my comment far out of proportion as another tactic to make it seem more outrageous, but this is hard to argue, as you could have honestly interpreted my post as an absolute demand, denying any alternatives. Of course, if you did take it literally, again, you go on to say the alternatives are obvious, or "super obvious" - so either you think I'm somehow honestly unaware of any alternative, or you're purposefully hyperbolizing my statements to make them seem more outrageous than they really are.
"#1: Because my brother handles the web site stuff and we're using a different system for this comic that doesn't include such a thing and I wouldn't even bother asking him about this pointless nonsense. #2: It's pointless nonsense." - this paragraph is the only one that actually makes an argument directly related to my request, instead of attacking the reasons I gave for making the request. Aside from the still-derogatory "pointless nonsense" you state that the web site uses a different system than the other comic sites, which would explain why there was no main/ page in the first place, and that your brother runs the site and you don't want to bother him, which explains why it will not be changed. This is a good paragraph! As they say in Hebrew, "dayenu" - it would have been enough.
Generally, if someone has a real point to make, I don't care if they're "mean" about it. That's just one way to get your point across, and there's nothing inherently wrong with that (some of my best friends are dicks). Doubly so on your own site - it's your house, when it gets down to it you're the one in charge. But please, at least recognize when you're being defensive, insulting, and sarcastic. If you're being sarcastic or trying to somehow be deceptive, that's just sad and there's nothing I could do or say anyway, but if somehow you honestly think that your first response was in any way nice, polite, or not being a jerk (or think that anyone else believes that), then that's truly shocking and I hope these examples help you at least see why someone would say that. If you just stick with "I'm a dick, and it's my website, so live with it" you'll at least get more respect than trying to say you're being a nice guy. Especially if you immediately turn around and skip straight to putting words in my mouth and calling my polite request "insanely stupid," as soon as someone else disagrees with you - before I have a chance to respond to the implied insults and earn the direct attacks myself.
"Glad you like the comic."
- You and Sarah earned the compliment! Keep up the good work.
davethebrave
· 10 months ago
lol
Bobby Crosby
· 10 months ago
" . . . trying to say you're being a nice guy."
You didn't comprehend my reply to Mia at all if you think I said that. Not gonna get into a long explanation about it -- use a dictionary, if necessary, and read it over yet again.
"Saying something like 'It really boggles my mind actually' doesn't further the argument the site should remain as it is . . ."
So what??? That's what I was thinking, so I said it. It boggled my mind and continues to.
" . . . this time implying I'm ignorant and oblivious, if not just stupid."
What's your point?
"You and Sarah earned the compliment!"
Sarah is the best. I hope she hasn't read any of this, but she probably has.
Cheryl
· 10 months ago
"If you must know why I might not think to check every Monday, it gets a little personal but I have inattentive ADD...When I read comics, I have a large list of bookmarks, and I go down the list quickly, seeing if each page has something new."
There's a very easy way to see at a glance if there is something new: sign up for the RSS feed, which has been available since the first page went up. RSS feed makes it very easy for this ADHD-affected person to see if something new has gone up at a glance.
Axel
· 10 months ago
I was merely explaining why the above suggestion would be convenient for me. Again, I never said that it was a necessity or that there was no alternative.
Sujin Shin
· 10 months ago
Lol well she doesn't look quite two years old in my opinion but think what you want, you don't have to try and convince me.
I think the discrepancies are in the first panel where her hand is slightly too large for her body and also the panel in which her face is at a 3/4 angle: her cheekbones are very pronounced. And I think no matter what time period, unless the child is malnourished (which I don't is the case with Elanor, whose parents who seem very caring), he or she will have a very round face with pudgy cheeks.
Katerin
· 10 months ago
I'm gonna go ahead and disagree with you there. My nephew is only one year old, definitely not malnourished, and his cheeks are about as chubby as Elanor's on this page. There is, in fact, no set way for children to look, apart from their arms and legs being proportionally shorter and their heads proportionally larger than adults.
Katerin
· 10 months ago
That was directed at Sujin Shin, since apparently you can't reply to a specific comment.
Sujin Shin
· 10 months ago
Well I guess everyone's different xP The second view of Elanor threw me off, something about her cheekbones...However the last panel is really done awesomely. The face is just perfect and she definitely looks like a two year old there.
Perl
· 10 months ago
I have to support axels request. When I check comics I just go through the bookmarks. I'm busy enough that I only check either first thing in the morning or late at night. .... because I have a job, to you know... make money... like most people do. At those times I'm not really at the top of my game, and any page that I see with a picture I recognize already.... such as your title or main page.... I just close the window thinking it hasn't updated yet. It's not really your problem if I am absent minded like that, but any kind of link that takes you to the newest page automatically... it automatically increases how many people will continue to read your comic... a lot of people just assume if they click newest page on the cover that they can then bookmark that page and it'll always be the newest one and will completely miss updates by seeing that it hasn't changed... and they will get exasperated unjustly when they find that there have been updates that they missed.... yeah, they're not very smart... but neither is the average internet user... I get that it's probably a lot of trouble for you, I am not sure what kind of restrictions your server puts on you or how it's all set up (sounds like kinda a bad deal if it takes that much effort for such a small change), but just wanted to tell you that it would probably be worth the effort in terms of number of site visits if you care about that at all.
Bobby Crosby
· 10 months ago
Perl: In general it might seem like a good idea, but for the specific case of Axel and the specific case of you, it's pointless. You're both going to care enough to write very long comments on this topic, but then you're going to completely forget about it? Seems impossible to me, especially for Axel, who wrote the longest comment in the history of my comics (over 50,000 comments) on this subject.
" . . . it would probably be worth the effort in terms of number of site visits if you care about that at all."
Don't really care about site visits from people that stupid. They couldn't comprehend the comic anyway.
Anon: She's commented here, but she's wisely chosen to avoid certain stupid topics which I can't stop myself from wasting time on.
perl
· 10 months ago
I guess that is more than fair. Thanks for answering my question. I was unaware that your number of visits was not really a big deal one way or another. Though I do agree that most people that forget might not get everything in your comic I also think that you give it a little too much credit by way of understanding. Don't get me wrong, there have been a few topics within the comics you've written that take some knowledge, but your general plots are not really that complex. Also though you say you wouldn't want someone that stupid reading... I have to wonder how many stupid people have actual connections to movie producers. Just a thought.
Bobby Crosby
· 10 months ago
Connections to movie producers? What would that possibly matter? I have an agent at Endeavor and I've already turned down and accepted movie deals.
"I was unaware that your number of visits was not really a big deal one way or another."
It is a big deal, but you're talking about an insanely small amount of people, like maybe 10 total who could conceivably be that stupid. If I thought it was over 500 people, then maybe I'd add the main page thing. When I know it's gotta be less than 20 people and very possibly zero people, then it's not worth it.
"Don't get me wrong, there have been a few topics within the comics you've written that take some knowledge, but your general plots are not really that complex."
What's your point? We're talking about people so stupid that they couldn't figure out how to go to the bathroom. Also, read the comments for "Last Blood," where a huge percentage of the fans can't figure out absolutely anything. Or the comments for this page right here, where someone said that moon pies come from Japan, among many other incorrect things. And just one of a trillion examples from "Marry Me" is the time when people said I was PROMOTING DOMESTIC VIOLENCE by having Guy punch Christian. The people who can't figure out that there are new "Dreamless" pages are even more dumb than all of them, though, and they'd have absolutely no chance of wrapping their brains around the concept of this story.
If the date of the latest entry is newer than the last time you checked, there's a new page and you can click that link to go see it. This is much like Sarah's main page, Earth Song's or even By Moon Alone which have a changing image to indicate the latest page... Actually this will load even quicker than them since it's mostly just text.
Just put it into your bookmark instead of the main page.
Sci
· 10 months ago
Bobby:
You, sir, are terrifying. And I hope never to get on your bad side.
Axel:
You, sir or madam, are epically awesome. And I wish that I could be half so precise.
Internet:
You, conglomerate, are full of wank. And need to mellow out.
All of that said, I will be back, but hopefully silently. Because hopefully I will have, by then, learned to keep my typing fingers to myself.
As for baby!Eleanor, I think her face is less the issue than the length of her arm in the first panel... but then, proportional anatomy is not my forte.
Sporkwoman
· 10 months ago
I was pretty sure someone else would mention this small problem, but apparently not. The RSS feed doesn't update unless you go to the front page and resubscribe, but then it's only the update that already occurred, not any afterward.
Mia
· 10 months ago
Sarah's art is at the height of beauty. It'll be great to read this in full in one go when it's done.
aloha4now
· 10 months ago
The Baby is speaking in tongues!!! :O. Daijobudeska?
Diana
· 10 months ago
Oi. No wonder her parents were worried.
charles81
· 10 months ago
Anyone with the complaint Axel has use this link below in your shortcut instead of the main page if you really want a webpage with an indication that badly: http://dreamless.keenspot.com/comic.rss
If the date of the latest entry is newer than the last time you checked, there's a new page and you can click that link to go see it. This is much like Sarah's main page, Earth Song's or even By Moon Alone which have a chaning image to indicate the latest page... Actually this will load even quicker than them since it's mostly just text.
Personally I do tend to like comic sites that have a main page, like Dreamless here, without the latest page displayed. That way, if I'm a first time reader, I can start from the beginning without spoiling something. It's also great if I don't check for a while and miss a few updates 'cos I don't necessarily want to spoil the ending of a scene or sequence either.
Granted, though, I'm not checking over 100 webcomics a day though... Struth that's just insane!
Sim^moN
· 10 months ago
Now, some of you made me quit reading this pages comments ;P
charles81
· 10 months ago
Inattentive ADD hu? Yeah I got that. It's a real bitch. But if you're willing, then the drug treatments of Ritalin and Dexamphetamine are most effective against that particular type.
Beyond that... "HOLY OVERANALYSIS BATMAN!"
Seriously though. All these arguments over polite responses, politically correct announcments of sexuality, discussions of colour versus B&W together with all sorts of other crap is more than enough entertainment to keep me coming back on a daily basis to bl**dy weekly comics. *lol*
Linden
· 10 months ago
What I find weirder than Elanor speaking Japanese as a baby are her parents, her mother being a hippie and her father in the military. Though they are a cute couple. ^_^
DamnKitty
· 10 months ago
japonès.... mmmmm interesante
Midevilynsanity
· 10 months ago
@ Damn Kitty
la derecha?
¡No puede esperar para ver qué sucede después!
John
· 10 months ago
I thought the mom was a hippy, and I also thought that the guy from the cover was Chinese. Kinda bummed about that one, but watev. (not that I'm Chinese, but there are other countries in the world other than Japan), not that I'm dissing you, it looks good so far.
Sujin Shin
· 10 months ago
The art is really some great stuff. Love the "boundary-less" look Sarah's going for here. Although the one comment I'll make is that the young girl looks quite a bit older than two in my opinion. She looks like she could be six or seven years old. Slightly confusing and distracting.
You're right, John. Japan is really such a popular country! I think people that are "obsessed" with Japan are actually called Japan-o-philes or something like that. xDDD
Bobby Crosby
· 10 months ago
Yeah, poor China, always getting ignored. (That was sarcastic -- I'm very confused.) As you'll see later, the story only works if he's Japanese.
Elanor looks two years old to me.
Sujin Shin
· 10 months ago
Well I have a three year old cousin that I see all the time so I guess I was comparing his physique to hers. He's much chubbier in the face and has almost no angles except for his very pointy chin. And his hands are much smaller than his face so these aspects made me feel that Elanor as a two year old wasn't very convincing.
I'm in no way insulting Sarah or her artistic ability. Just noting something that might be useful for her in the future.
Lord Byron
· 10 months ago
Me likey flashbacks.
Hurm. Elanor is a cute little Japanese-speaking baby.
"He's much chubbier in the face and has almost no angles except for his very pointy chin."
Kids were skinnier in 1925.
Maren
· 10 months ago
Japanese?! oO.... OK, now her parents have to be confused, as I am now.
Sarah, I want to make drawings like this!!! You are awesome!!!!
Neal_K
· 10 months ago
zThe eyes are incredible and the story is very compelling
krulle
· 10 months ago
the art is incredible. indeed.
It's what drew me to Sarah Ellertons' comics in the first place.
i just hope my baby will someday be half as sweet as Elanor. (Actually, i'm pretty sure it will be, and if only because of "(S)He's my kid, so (s)he the sweetest anyway). :)
A Fan
· 10 months ago
:DDDDD I LOVEEEEE IT! wish it came faster! (don't worry i'm not asking it to be faster, i just want you to know how AWESOME it is!!! i can't wait to find out what happens to her! And when the boy on the cover will come in!
Cheryl
· 10 months ago
Yay, backstory! Already eager for next week's installment. One page just isn't enough fabulousness. ;)
xyzzy
· 10 months ago
FYI, your RSS feed seems to be a bit confused. I'm only seeing RSS entries for the first page.
Kelsey
· 10 months ago
Absolutely beautiful. I've been studying Japanese this year, so it was a nice treat to actually understand what she was saying without a translation! Well done :)
Some Guy that like Ms Ellerton
· 10 months ago
Art is great. Everything is great except that for some reason it takes FOREVER for this comic to load (the entire page). For some reason everything will be blank on the screen even though it's done loading for MINUTES... then all of a sudden BAM, whole page shows up on the screen. Very odd indeed. Never seen anything like it...
Brent
· 10 months ago
On the two year old thing.....yeah, she looks about right. Hell, my neice has a full head of (admittedly not too thick) hair so by the time she actually is two, she'll probably be very close to if not exactly like how Elanor is looking.
T1p2
· 10 months ago
hmm...something tells me that it is not normal for a baby to speak fluent Japanese.
Lelerz
· 10 months ago
The art is gorgeous! ^_^ I wait for more!
Anon
· 10 months ago
How come Sarah doesn't comment here like Bobby does? I'd like to hear her take on things. We all love you Sarah! Come chat with us! -^_^-
KelseyBells
· 10 months ago
sarah ellerton is an amazing artist. i so wish i could draw like her. can't waist to read more! if you haven't read any other of sarah's webcomics, i highly recommend them!!!!
Brent
· 10 months ago
*sigh*
You know, this whole thing could be avoided in the future by the addition of an archives page at some point, or a dial-down menu above the comic like you have over at Marry Me. I know that's not you who puts that in, Bobby, but maybe your brother could. I'm not saying I have a problem with the current setup, but for guys like Axel and perl, it's an option. Besides, it's not like you don't already have something like that on another comic, so really you'd just be echoing what's going on on another site of yours.
There. You guys actually dragged me into it.
Bobby Crosby
· 10 months ago
Some sort of archives or dropdown menu will be in place eventually. No need for it five pages in. But neither of those things would solve the "problem" (almost certainly imaginary) posed by Axel and Perl, so I don't really get your point. Have you ignored charles81's repeated comments on this topic? And let's not forget this very important point from charles:
"Personally I do tend to like comic sites that have a main page, like Dreamless here, without the latest page displayed. That way, if I'm a first time reader, I can start from the beginning without spoiling something. It's also great if I don't check for a while and miss a few updates 'cos I don't necessarily want to spoil the ending of a scene or sequence either."
If I did what Axel and Perl wanted, I'd cause a ton more problems than I'd "fix." I've had dozens of complaints from people saying how the static page that Axel wants has spoiled things for them with "Marry Me" and "Last Blood."
charles81
· 10 months ago
If its not one mob bitching about things being one way, then it'll be another mob bitching about it being the other.
Here's a movie idea:
"THE FORUM"
"Flame, advertise or argue with the mod, and he doesn't ban you for life. He will ban you FROM life"
From the producers of "Hostel" and the Director of "Hollywood Chainsaw Hookers" comes a horror story to make every poster think twice"
NY Times- "Makes me too afraid to comment on it"
Brent
· 10 months ago
"If I did what Axel and Perl wanted, I'd cause a ton more problems than I'd "fix.""
Not saying you should, B. Just asking about the archive thing, which you did answer.....cause it's too early.
"Have you ignored charles81's repeated comments on this topic?"
What, the ones about the RSS feed? No, I haven't, and it's not for me.
"I don't really get your point."
My point was the archive thing, which you already answered, and I'm not trying to solve things for Axel and Pearl, just positing a solution everyone could live with, and according to you, that will probably come up further down the line (around strip forty or something). End of story. And as for the thing about it automatically showing the current page.....like I said, I like the current setup, and in other instances I would just view it as a teaser.....to get me intrigued, as it were.
Bobby Crosby
· 10 months ago
Brent: You said "this whole thing could be avoided in the future by the addition of an archives page," so I was simply pointing out how that's very incorrect.
Anon
· 10 months ago
I searched for Sarah's comments on each page, and it seems she goes by the alias "artsangel." But if that's her only alias, then she's only commented once, on the first page. I was hoping she could offer some insight for each page, but if she doesn't want to, that's cool.
writ
· 10 months ago
LOL.
Loki-chan
· 10 months ago
I was interested to see that Japanese was chosen as the language that baby Elanor was speaking... I was even more interested to see that several people actually identified it correctly as Japanese (I would not have been surprised to see people saying Chinese or Korean).
@whoever was saying that using the keigo forms was unusual... it's actually not. If we consider that she's probably parroting what her mother is saying (albeit in a different language) then the keigo form is normal. The shorter and more informal "tanjyoubi omedetou" is used more commonly between friends and young children...
Oh keigo... you make me wish that I hadn't chosen to study Japanese... ever...
Raina
· 10 months ago
Id like it if the main page showed the newest comic first. That would be nice :) and convienient. And help out my poor a.d.d. since all the other comic pages are like that online ^_^;
Miiriim
· 10 months ago
"Speaking in Tongues": I believe that's the preferred term for what she's doing. Apparently it happens, but I've never seen it done. For someone to do so right at age one? Well, at least we know she's going to be a fairly special kind of character.
Kevin
· 10 months ago
Seriously. What the hell is up with people and Japan?!
Anime this, Japan that, Mang whatever... Seriously WHAT THE FUCK - AND DON'T CALL ME RACIST, I AM JAPANESE.
Bobby Crosby
· 10 months ago
Not racist, just a moron.
Kitsu-chan
· 9 months ago
haha she said good morning and otanjou-bi is happy birthday if my knowledge is correct
Fuddles
· 9 months ago
Beautiful art work!! Really Sarah, its amazing!
Chibbums
· 8 months ago
Good Gods...
Just reading this one page of comments has made me never want to read the comment section again.
Bobby, you are absolutely crass towards the readers; why is that even necessary?
Your personality is an absolute put-off.
Shh. It's a secret.
· 8 months ago
That was the most entertaining half hour of my life.
All Comments
Incredible art by Sarah Ellerton on this page. Love it.
Vote for Dreamless to read the English translation of what little Elanor said.
isn't that *interesting*
Sarah and Bobby, keep up the excellent work.
--
Bobby - so far this story is pretty good! Can't wait to see what's going to happen!! :D
Sarah (if you read the comments) -- Oh my god, the art on this page is gorgeous!! Baby Elanor is absolutely beautiful, as is the coloring and shading. Great work.
It's awesome that you and Bobby got in touch and joined forces-- You make a great team!!!
....Wow, I sound like I want to roast her or something. O__o;;
Aaanyway, I also think that the American flag in the background is a nice touch. ^__^ Although I'm getting confused as to the time-period, now. Is that intentional? O__O
And goodness. The situation with the dude on the cover isn't just a recent thing, now, is it. How tantalizing!
Beautiful work, as per usual, the two of you!
On another note, I prefer this romanisation over more standard, because it's easier for me to read and understand. ^^;; (And type when I need to.)
Are we supposed to notice that she's repeating back "Happy Birthday" as opposed to saying "it's my birthday"? Something significant about that?
I just figure a child wouldn't be speaking in honorifics. :O
But then again, I have never been to Japan myself.
Otanjoubi: Birthday
Omedetou: Celebrate (I believe)
Gozaimasu: Please
Close to how they say Happy New Years - "Akemashite omedetou gozaimasu".
Nice. xD
Looks stunning :)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moon_pie
odd she's speaking japanese though. mysterious
I have your RSS feed in Feadreader 3.13 so I'll be sure not to miss an update -- RSS feed much appreciated, BTW! -- but for some reason, I get 3 update notices, all for the same page!
That glitch will be corrected once there are seven pages in the archive.
i dont think thats going to make the mom feel much better.
im curious as to what will happen next!
Well for her sake, I hope the parents just assume she's speaking gibberish, though that probably won't be the case.
Still loving the art, Sarah! I SWEAR I will start reading TPR one of these days!
Awesome beginning! I look forward to seeing this story pan out!
Other than that, I'm guessing they avoided using Japanese font so they could show how the parents are confused by the sounds and can't make them out as Japansese or any language. Just jibberish.
It's not normal for western people to recognize an asian language, even nowadays, and if it's around 1920 in this page, the chances are even smaller.
On a second note, I think she looks a bit older than two years, but that could be just my bad memory - kell knows it's hard to draw children.
Its wonderful to see this different art style Sarah, I can't wait until you have a whole book shelf running across your Seraph-Inn site.
Going by the cover of this comic I'm assuming that when she sleeps she goes somewhere and is with that Japanese man (I guess maybe a boy at this time) on the cover and that would be where she learns Japanese from.
And I guess the difference between using romanji and the actual hiri/kana kanji characters doesn't really matter when the parents are hearing gibberish anyways. Then again maybe they do know what their little girl said... maybe lol.
if you dont get it then read this http://www.wpri.com/dpp/news/strange_news/offbe...
It's so exciting!
I also like that she's not a direct clone of either of her parents, but the resemblance is defnitely still there. Particularly in her facial expressions and her mom's in panel 5.
This is just wonderful! I can't imagine the work that goes into this.
She's a really cute two year old, but she looks a little big for that age. O_o Her mom is pretty~
I've been an avid fan of Sarah's since Inverloch. I'm excited to see her join a project with such a good writer. The art is fantastic! I can't wait to get more of the story.
Also.. crazy Japanese?? I don't even know what to expect now, haha!
So please, make a URL that will update visually when there's a new page, not just in the URL of one link. I'm not sure why you didn't already. The only time I've seen this kind of layout where the latest comic is not on the top page (at least, where I saw the layout and thought it was justified) was when a multiple-page update was the norm - which is not the case here, since there's a 1-page-per-week schedule. Even then, there was a thumbnail or (as with Sarah's site) a blog to announce a new update.
- Axel
And wait a minute here -- I don't even understand ANY of this, any of what you're saying. How will a "main" page help at all? You're saying that you WILL remember to often visit such a main page, which means you'd also remember to visit dreamlessmovie.com, but the problem is you then don't want to click on CURRENT PAGE under the cover on dreamlessmovie.com, because you literally don't want to waste ONE SECOND to see if there's a new one, even though there will almost certainly be one every Monday for the next 18 months or so? I'm so extremely confused. You don't even have to click! All you have to do is put your cursor over CURRENT PAGE and you'll see if it's a new date or not! Then only click if it's a new date and you'll see the new comic! Or use the RSS feed! Or a trillion other obvious options. So so so confused.
"So please, make a URL that will update visually when there's a new page, not just in the URL of one link. I'm not sure why you didn't already."
#1: Because my brother handles the web site stuff and we're using a different system for this comic that doesn't include such a thing and I wouldn't even bother asking him about this pointless nonsense. #2: It's pointless nonsense.
Also, you even say that you read Sarah's comics, which is of course a super obvious place that you'll be reminded of "Dreamless" pretty often, I'm sure. I don't in any way understand your stated fear of having this gem get lost in the shuffle. I see less than a zero percent chance of that for you. This is basically the most pointless complaint I've ever heard of.
Glad you like the comic.
And I'm sure you'll take what I'm saying as some great insult against your fantastic ego that can never be tarnished and bash it, while other people insult me as well.
But you know what? It's not hard to just be nice to the people that actually enjoy your comic instead of completely putting them off by your attitude of "oh god you ASKED ME TO DO SOMETHING? BUT THIS IS ALL ABOUT ME!"
Which sucks, because I really like your stuff, you have a talent. But I always get sidetracked by your attitude whenever I read the comics and you sound all defensive.
I also don't see how I was so mean to him (in my previous comment). He asked me to do something, I said no, and then I nicely chose to explain why I said no, while I was still trying to figure out why he wanted what he asked for. And it's impossible for that explanation to not sound at least a little mean, since he was saying an insanely stupid thing, but still, at least I gave him an explanation, jeez. It would have been more mean if I simply said no. I personally hate wondering about such things, being confused, but I have no problem with people calling me every name in the book like you did. I assume I have more experience with that than Axel, but still, confusion is the worst, and I didn't call him any names. You started the name calling.
Why do you make it sound like it's somehow news to tell me that I'm a prick? Your last sentence strongly implied that you've read lots of the comments for my various comics, where you could have seen literally hundreds of people saying the exact same thing you just said. You're the one with the ego obviously, thinking it will somehow matter more when you say it. You could have waited and picked a much better time to do so, though, since I'm 99% sure I'll be much more mean to someone else at some point soon in these comments.
"It's not hard to just be nice to the people that actually enjoy your comic . . ."
He said he needed like 8,000 different special reminders that the comic exists in order for it not to get lost in the shuffle. It would be similar to sending J.K. Rowling a letter a few years ago asking her to call him when Book 7 was released, to make sure he doesn't forget to go buy it. Except what he did here was much more confusing. Rowling's much nicer than me, though, so she probably would have actually called him. I love her.
To be clear, I have no clue how to do what he asks and I doubt my brother would even consider wasting the time to do it. If Axel asked me to call him when a new page went up, I probably would, since I strive to be like J.K. Rowling.
Just lol at them. Ironically or actually, lol.
LOL
You're so right.
@ Bobby
Rowling is Amazing. -- You're a pretty awesome writer yourself!!
@ Mia and Axel, I take it you haven't read "Marry Me" (or at least the comments there) seeing as to how you're picking the same spat with Bobby as most of the "Marry Me" Readers did.
Here's a tip I've learned: Let him do things his way or you get insta-banned.
I make it a point to explain myself, and why I would like that feature. In fact, I'm pretty paranoid, just by my nature, about sounding entitled, demanding, or rude when all I have to communicate with is text. I said that I understand it's a minor convenience on my part, and when I say "I don't understand" I actually mean "I don't understand" - that was not an insult, I obviously don't know every in and out of your site design, it's your comic and your site. I didn't know if you (or, apparently your brother) had simply not thought of it, or if you had a specific reason to set the site up that way. That simple sentence was an invitation, if you did have a specific reason, to explain it. If you had simply said "Well, Axel, I did have a reason not to do it that way, because ______, so I won't change it" then I would have been perfectly satisfied and no-one would have complained. In fact, if you had simply said "I did have a reason" but not provided said reason, I would have been satisfied that you were aware such a page was wanted and had decided yourself that it was not needed (it is your site!).
I never assumed anything about your motivations, except that I didn't know them. I thought that letting you know why I was making that suggestion would be better than simply saying it without context, and emphasizing that it would be of a minor convenience would convey that I did not intend it to be a demand and did not hold a 100% expectation that it would be followed. In fact, I thought the reason this site deviated from the standard of your other collaborative comics might be that it was a preference of Sarah's, so out of curiosity I went to her site to see how it was layed out (this why I referenced it as an alternative example - I have not, in fact, read any of her comics outside of Dreamless)
When I said "lost in the shuffle" I only meant that I would not see updates as they go up. Is that so wrong? Yes, I might realize in a few months that I'm 10 pages behind, and catch up. Will this be the end of the world? Of course not. I never said it was. If you must know why I might not think to check every Monday, it gets a little personal but I have inattentive ADD - which is only relevant in this case in that I lose track of what I'm doing easily if it's not right in front of me. When I read comics, I have a large list of bookmarks, and I go down the list quickly, seeing if each page has something new. I didn't think that going into this much excruciating detail as to the motivations and actions of my daily routine were necessary, but since you felt the need to analyze my every action in lieu of further explanation, I guess I was expected to provide it myself. Perhaps I should have left that part out and simply said it would be more convenient for me? I just looked at my comment and thought that it didn't seem like I had justified myself very well, so I added another reason why it would be helpful on an update-to-update basis (and wanted to reiterate that, while I'm making a request, the reason is that I like the comic in the first place), but it seems you focused on that sentence as some specific fear. As a side note, I did read your post several times to understand it. This is because, knowing that I lose my train of thought easily, I make special effort to understand what others are saying and why as well as to make myself understood.
And again, just because this is the most important point, and something you appear to have missed - did I expect a writer of several webcomics, manager of a number of intellectual properties across the internet, printed page, and films, to take time out of his busy schedule to comply with the demands of a college student with a short attention span? Of course I didn't! (please note that I'm not being sarcastic here - I know that Bobby Crosby is juggling several projects on and offline, and surely more than the ones he announces on his comic sites, and probably has a busier day-to-day schedule than I have at my worst)
I expected one of three outcomes: a) If you read my comment, were sympathetic, and had some free time (or thought your webmaster might), you would add a /main page (or ask your webmaster if he could, at which point he could say yes or no), or leave a note saying you would look into it when you had the time. b) if you read my comment but had a specific reason not to have said page in the first place, or felt that the effort would outweigh the minor benefit (or, as in scenario a, your webmaster told you it wouldn't be worth it), you would leave a note saying "No, I intended the site to have this layout to begin with" or "Sorry, it's more trouble than you'd think." Or c) you don't read the comment, or you don't find it important enough to respond to, and when I check the site again (I do keep track of online conversations more closely than my list of comics) there is no reply, so I move on with my life and don't worry about it, no longer wondering if it was just an oversight every time the thought "oh, that's right, I have to stop and check the url/click again for this site" flits passes through my head for half a second.
Of course, what we see is that... b), a perfectly acceptable result has occurred! My initial request has been resolved in a satisfactory and expected manner. I appreciate that you felt adding another page was not worth your brother's time. I will admit that it seems a bit insulting that you deemed it so unimportant that you did not even mention it to your brother, leaving the gain, no matter how minuscule, compared to an unknown value instead of a known cost - if only because you decided it was important enough to warrant such a lengthy reply to me. However, the simple result that you did not create a /main page or make updates on the index page visually apparent, is perfectly acceptable by my standards and not in itself insulting or surprising.
The issue I have, of course, is the way you seem to have read malice, entitlement, and stupidity into my language. I give you the benefit of the doubt, as I hope I do with everyone, that you are a reasonable person, and your motivations are valid (I still do, of course - otherwise I wouldn't be bothering with this reply). But you don't give me that same benefit. You don't seem to realize where you are being "mean" or insulting, or indeed where you say anything that is unwarranted.
My main point of contention is that instead of simply refusing my request, or explaining why it's more reasonable for the site to operate the way it does, you go out of your way to make me and my request sound unreasonable and ridiculous - that is, you did not do so "nicely" and brought insults against me where you would have been perfectly justified without them (unnecessarily "mean"). If you were trying to make your argument nicely, you would have refrained from insults and purely negative arguments (that my suggestion is bad) and focused on purely or mostly positive arguments (that not following my suggestion is good). Furthermore, a lot of your rhetoric isn't even arguing that I am unreasonable, but simply asserting or implying it repeatedly.
Saying something like "It really boggles my mind actually" doesn't further the argument the site should remain as it is, it only demeans my request by implying it is not only unreasonable, but unintelligible. Whether or not that's true, it's certainly an insult, and one that is there for its own sake, not necessary for any positive argument toward your decision. There is a lot of language like this in your response. "I don't even understand ANY of this," emphasizing that no part of my comment is intelligent; in fact the whole paragraph following makes the assumption that I am completely unaware of any alternative (as opposed to, as I said, it being "a minor inconvenience") and ends with "Or a trillion other obvious options" - this time implying I'm ignorant and oblivious, if not just stupid.
I would also like to say that you take my comment far out of proportion as another tactic to make it seem more outrageous, but this is hard to argue, as you could have honestly interpreted my post as an absolute demand, denying any alternatives. Of course, if you did take it literally, again, you go on to say the alternatives are obvious, or "super obvious" - so either you think I'm somehow honestly unaware of any alternative, or you're purposefully hyperbolizing my statements to make them seem more outrageous than they really are.
"#1: Because my brother handles the web site stuff and we're using a different system for this comic that doesn't include such a thing and I wouldn't even bother asking him about this pointless nonsense. #2: It's pointless nonsense." - this paragraph is the only one that actually makes an argument directly related to my request, instead of attacking the reasons I gave for making the request. Aside from the still-derogatory "pointless nonsense" you state that the web site uses a different system than the other comic sites, which would explain why there was no main/ page in the first place, and that your brother runs the site and you don't want to bother him, which explains why it will not be changed. This is a good paragraph! As they say in Hebrew, "dayenu" - it would have been enough.
Generally, if someone has a real point to make, I don't care if they're "mean" about it. That's just one way to get your point across, and there's nothing inherently wrong with that (some of my best friends are dicks). Doubly so on your own site - it's your house, when it gets down to it you're the one in charge. But please, at least recognize when you're being defensive, insulting, and sarcastic. If you're being sarcastic or trying to somehow be deceptive, that's just sad and there's nothing I could do or say anyway, but if somehow you honestly think that your first response was in any way nice, polite, or not being a jerk (or think that anyone else believes that), then that's truly shocking and I hope these examples help you at least see why someone would say that. If you just stick with "I'm a dick, and it's my website, so live with it" you'll at least get more respect than trying to say you're being a nice guy. Especially if you immediately turn around and skip straight to putting words in my mouth and calling my polite request "insanely stupid," as soon as someone else disagrees with you - before I have a chance to respond to the implied insults and earn the direct attacks myself.
"Glad you like the comic."
- You and Sarah earned the compliment! Keep up the good work.
You didn't comprehend my reply to Mia at all if you think I said that. Not gonna get into a long explanation about it -- use a dictionary, if necessary, and read it over yet again.
"Saying something like 'It really boggles my mind actually' doesn't further the argument the site should remain as it is . . ."
So what??? That's what I was thinking, so I said it. It boggled my mind and continues to.
" . . . this time implying I'm ignorant and oblivious, if not just stupid."
What's your point?
"You and Sarah earned the compliment!"
Sarah is the best. I hope she hasn't read any of this, but she probably has.
There's a very easy way to see at a glance if there is something new: sign up for the RSS feed, which has been available since the first page went up. RSS feed makes it very easy for this ADHD-affected person to see if something new has gone up at a glance.
I think the discrepancies are in the first panel where her hand is slightly too large for her body and also the panel in which her face is at a 3/4 angle: her cheekbones are very pronounced. And I think no matter what time period, unless the child is malnourished (which I don't is the case with Elanor, whose parents who seem very caring), he or she will have a very round face with pudgy cheeks.
At those times I'm not really at the top of my game, and any page that I see with a picture I recognize already.... such as your title or main page.... I just close the window thinking it hasn't updated yet.
It's not really your problem if I am absent minded like that, but any kind of link that takes you to the newest page automatically... it automatically increases how many people will continue to read your comic...
a lot of people just assume if they click newest page on the cover that they can then bookmark that page and it'll always be the newest one and will completely miss updates by seeing that it hasn't changed... and they will get exasperated unjustly when they find that there have been updates that they missed....
yeah, they're not very smart... but neither is the average internet user...
I get that it's probably a lot of trouble for you, I am not sure what kind of restrictions your server puts on you or how it's all set up (sounds like kinda a bad deal if it takes that much effort for such a small change), but just wanted to tell you that it would probably be worth the effort in terms of number of site visits if you care about that at all.
" . . . it would probably be worth the effort in terms of number of site visits if you care about that at all."
Don't really care about site visits from people that stupid. They couldn't comprehend the comic anyway.
Anon: She's commented here, but she's wisely chosen to avoid certain stupid topics which I can't stop myself from wasting time on.
Though I do agree that most people that forget might not get everything in your comic I also think that you give it a little too much credit by way of understanding. Don't get me wrong, there have been a few topics within the comics you've written that take some knowledge, but your general plots are not really that complex.
Also though you say you wouldn't want someone that stupid reading... I have to wonder how many stupid people have actual connections to movie producers.
Just a thought.
"I was unaware that your number of visits was not really a big deal one way or another."
It is a big deal, but you're talking about an insanely small amount of people, like maybe 10 total who could conceivably be that stupid. If I thought it was over 500 people, then maybe I'd add the main page thing. When I know it's gotta be less than 20 people and very possibly zero people, then it's not worth it.
"Don't get me wrong, there have been a few topics within the comics you've written that take some knowledge, but your general plots are not really that complex."
What's your point? We're talking about people so stupid that they couldn't figure out how to go to the bathroom. Also, read the comments for "Last Blood," where a huge percentage of the fans can't figure out absolutely anything. Or the comments for this page right here, where someone said that moon pies come from Japan, among many other incorrect things. And just one of a trillion examples from "Marry Me" is the time when people said I was PROMOTING DOMESTIC VIOLENCE by having Guy punch Christian. The people who can't figure out that there are new "Dreamless" pages are even more dumb than all of them, though, and they'd have absolutely no chance of wrapping their brains around the concept of this story.
http://dreamless.keenspot.com/comic.rss
If the date of the latest entry is newer than the last time you checked, there's a new page and you can click that link to go see it. This is much like Sarah's main page, Earth Song's or even By Moon Alone which have a changing image to indicate the latest page... Actually this will load even quicker than them since it's mostly just text.
Just put it into your bookmark instead of the main page.
You, sir, are terrifying. And I hope never to get on your bad side.
Axel:
You, sir or madam, are epically awesome. And I wish that I could be half so precise.
Internet:
You, conglomerate, are full of wank. And need to mellow out.
All of that said, I will be back, but hopefully silently. Because hopefully I will have, by then, learned to keep my typing fingers to myself.
As for baby!Eleanor, I think her face is less the issue than the length of her arm in the first panel... but then, proportional anatomy is not my forte.
Daijobudeska?
http://dreamless.keenspot.com/comic.rss
If the date of the latest entry is newer than the last time you checked, there's a new page and you can click that link to go see it. This is much like Sarah's main page, Earth Song's or even By Moon Alone which have a chaning image to indicate the latest page... Actually this will load even quicker than them since it's mostly just text.
Personally I do tend to like comic sites that have a main page, like Dreamless here, without the latest page displayed. That way, if I'm a first time reader, I can start from the beginning without spoiling something. It's also great if I don't check for a while and miss a few updates 'cos I don't necessarily want to spoil the ending of a scene or sequence either.
Granted, though, I'm not checking over 100 webcomics a day though... Struth that's just insane!
Beyond that... "HOLY OVERANALYSIS BATMAN!"
Seriously though. All these arguments over polite responses, politically correct announcments of sexuality, discussions of colour versus B&W together with all sorts of other crap is more than enough entertainment to keep me coming back on a daily basis to bl**dy weekly comics. *lol*
la derecha?
¡No puede esperar para ver qué sucede después!
You're right, John. Japan is really such a popular country! I think people that are "obsessed" with Japan are actually called Japan-o-philes or something like that. xDDD
Elanor looks two years old to me.
I'm in no way insulting Sarah or her artistic ability. Just noting something that might be useful for her in the future.
Hurm. Elanor is a cute little Japanese-speaking baby.
Absolutely gorgeous artwork... :)
http://www.heninger.org/index_assets/DSCN6657-2...
She looks the same age as Elanor to me.
"He's much chubbier in the face and has almost no angles except for his very pointy chin."
Kids were skinnier in 1925.
Sarah, I want to make drawings like this!!! You are awesome!!!!
It's what drew me to Sarah Ellertons' comics in the first place.
i just hope my baby will someday be half as sweet as Elanor.
(Actually, i'm pretty sure it will be, and if only because of "(S)He's my kid, so (s)he the sweetest anyway). :)
You know, this whole thing could be avoided in the future by the addition of an archives page at some point, or a dial-down menu above the comic like you have over at Marry Me. I know that's not you who puts that in, Bobby, but maybe your brother could. I'm not saying I have a problem with the current setup, but for guys like Axel and perl, it's an option. Besides, it's not like you don't already have something like that on another comic, so really you'd just be echoing what's going on on another site of yours.
There. You guys actually dragged me into it.
"Personally I do tend to like comic sites that have a main page, like Dreamless here, without the latest page displayed. That way, if I'm a first time reader, I can start from the beginning without spoiling something. It's also great if I don't check for a while and miss a few updates 'cos I don't necessarily want to spoil the ending of a scene or sequence either."
If I did what Axel and Perl wanted, I'd cause a ton more problems than I'd "fix." I've had dozens of complaints from people saying how the static page that Axel wants has spoiled things for them with "Marry Me" and "Last Blood."
Here's a movie idea:
"THE FORUM"
"Flame, advertise or argue with the mod, and he doesn't ban you for life.
He will ban you FROM life"
From the producers of "Hostel" and the Director of "Hollywood Chainsaw Hookers" comes a horror story to make every poster think twice"
NY Times- "Makes me too afraid to comment on it"
Not saying you should, B. Just asking about the archive thing, which you did answer.....cause it's too early.
"Have you ignored charles81's repeated comments on this topic?"
What, the ones about the RSS feed? No, I haven't, and it's not for me.
"I don't really get your point."
My point was the archive thing, which you already answered, and I'm not trying to solve things for Axel and Pearl, just positing a solution everyone could live with, and according to you, that will probably come up further down the line (around strip forty or something). End of story. And as for the thing about it automatically showing the current page.....like I said, I like the current setup, and in other instances I would just view it as a teaser.....to get me intrigued, as it were.
@whoever was saying that using the keigo forms was unusual... it's actually not. If we consider that she's probably parroting what her mother is saying (albeit in a different language) then the keigo form is normal. The shorter and more informal "tanjyoubi omedetou" is used more commonly between friends and young children...
Oh keigo... you make me wish that I hadn't chosen to study Japanese... ever...
Anime this, Japan that, Mang whatever... Seriously WHAT THE FUCK - AND DON'T CALL ME RACIST, I AM JAPANESE.
Just reading this one page of comments has made me never want to read the comment section again.
Bobby, you are absolutely crass towards the readers; why is that even necessary?
Your personality is an absolute put-off.
Silly.
Good comic.
I don't mind clicking "Recent Page."
Sarah's a cool writer.
Peace out girl scouts.